Podcast spotlight: ABC Radio National’s The Bookshelf
The Bookshelf (formerly known as BooksPlus) is both a podcast and radio program for ‘dedicated readers and those who wished they read more’. Broadcasting on Friday afternoons (and available online shortly after), the hour-long episodes are co-hosted by longtime radio producers and presenters Kate Evans and Cassie McCullagh, who discuss the latest literary fiction releases with writers, critics and publishing-industry insiders. Evans describes the pair’s presenting style as fearless: ‘We’re not afraid to disagree with each other and to keep pursuing ideas wherever they may go’. She spoke to Books+Publishing for our ‘podcast spotlight‘ series.
Describe your podcast in 50 words or less.
The Bookshelf on ABC Radio National (RN) has at least two guests each week. The show is shaped around three new fiction titles (but often covers three times that many books), with an additional ‘bookshelf that made me’ interview with a writer. It includes specialist readers, reviewers and writers, with plenty of scope for disagreement.
What makes your podcast unique?
Building on years of experience as broadcasters and journalists, we have fairly good contacts in the publishing, writing and academic scenes. This means we have very good and interesting guests. Also, as two passionate readers who know each other well, we’re not afraid to disagree with each other and to keep pursuing ideas wherever they may go.
When and how did you get started in podcasting?
The ABC generally, and RN in particular, has lead the way in podcasting in Australia for close to 20 years. All programs on RN, for example, are available as podcasts. So imagining our audiences as both listening to us on air and as listeners looking for a digital offering has been a central part of our working lives for a long time. The Bookshelf is a new program that began in January this year. Before that, I interviewed writers for RN’s daily Books and Arts program, and I presented Books Plus (now no longer running), both of which were on-air programs and podcasts.
Where and how is your podcast recorded (and how big is your team)?
We record out of a studio in the ABC’s Ultimo headquarters, with Cassie and me in the studio, and guests either with us or in ABC studios around the country. Other elements (like the ‘bookshelf that made me’ segment) are prerecorded and edited separately. The team is small: I work part time; Cassie also presents a five-day-a-week program on ABC Sydney, so she squeezes this show in on top of a full-time load; and Sarah Corbett works across three RN programs and fits this one in too.
What kind of listeners does your podcast reach?
It’s expanding and diverse, including people who are already interested in books and reading, and those who follow particular genres. There’s the established ABC audience, but podcasts also reach other listeners, across all ages. The great thing about both the ABC and podcasts is the diversity and unexpected listeners you find (in an inner-city cafe, on a tractor in regional Australia, driving anywhere).
What have been your most popular guests or most memorable episodes?
Passionate disagreement is pretty engaging—writer and editor Erik Jensen hated a book recently. On the other hand, four of us loved Rachel Cusk‘s writing, leading to a meaty discussion of style. What else? Discovering ‘Finnish weird’ as a genre was fun, as is hearing from specialists as reviewers (a Homeric academic on Madeline Miller’s Circe, for example). Hearing writers reflect on the bookshelves that made them can be surprisingly moving (Kim Scott reciting the opening of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer; Barbara Kingsolver on trying to find herself in novels).
What recent trends have you noticed in podcasting? (Do you have any predictions for this format in the future?)
People want ideas and substance. After years of being told everything was supposed to be shorter, snappier, fleeting and fluffier, now the opposite seems to be true. Longform exploration of ideas, real research and deeper investigation of topics—as well as engaging stories—seem to perform very well. Our colleagues on ABC’s Conversations are consistently top of the charts for podcasts, and this is what they offer.
Why do you think people are drawn to this format?
Podcasts are both intimate and personal, and connect listeners to a wider world of stories and ideas. They’re also flexible and portable. That person walking past with headphones on might be listening to music, or to a discussion of trends in autofiction, the depth of research in historical fiction, or why Australian writing about landscape is both fierce and poetic.
What plans do you have for your podcast going forward?
We plan to make a series about book clubs and reading groups, how they’re organised and what people are reading. We’ll likely do more events from writers festivals when we can (we broadcast live from the Sydney Writers Festival this year with three international guests). There are also plans afoot for more discussion of books generally on the ABC, so watch this space.
What other bookish podcasts should we be listening to, Australian or otherwise?
Well, we have to start with our colleagues on ABC RN of course: sister program The Hub on Books presented by Claire Nichols, and the many nonfiction book discussions that happen on Late Night Live and Saturday Extra. Cassie and I also regularly listen to podcasts from the New York Times Book Review, the London Review of Books and the many BBC books programs.
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